Available Software

How do you know when a trend has started? Ended? This forum is for discussions about trend indicators and signals.
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John
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Available Software

Post by John » Wed Jul 07, 2004 1:31 am

Hello,

Could you please tell me if there is software available to help with entry and exit points?

Thank you very much for your time and consideration.

John

Kiwi
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Post by Kiwi » Wed Jul 07, 2004 3:05 am

That is a staggeringly broad question and my initial thoughts were to ignore it. My second thoughts were that it was a very lazy question and that you had not read very much of the material on this site. I then got a bit more generous and thought that maybe you had been stunned by the amount of material on this site and decided to start with a question.

If I am right then you should head to the reading/books section and spend some months doing research otherwise you are on your way to the slaughterhouse to provide liquidity for better traders. If you want to give money away then the markets will willingly receive it from you.

Here are some good places to look:
viewtopic.php?p=70&highlight=#70
viewforum.php?f=14

Assuming that I was wrong. An answer to your actual question: Tradestation, Sierrachart, Ensign, etc etc ... and of course the Turtle Trading Software. If you spend some time reading the material on this site you will find considerable information on the tools available to generate entry and exit signals.

Forum Mgmnt, when I was going through the phases of answering this question I realised how many posts there must be on this site now and how hard it is to find the basic stuff (I went looking for the first url above). It might be helpful if someone culled out a section for new entrants or just pointed them to the most important topics to start with.

John

John
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Post by John » Wed Jul 07, 2004 10:07 am

I will rephrase my question - Is there specific software available that aids in helping define turtle based entries and exits.

Whoever answered my post - I am completely offended by your very patronizing and gratuitious remarks. My original post was not specific, but it's hardly a reason for your condescending attitude. I question whether you make money trading.

For what it's worth I will no longer be a part of this forum. I'll find an answer to my question elsewhere.

Thank you.

Kiwi
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Post by Kiwi » Wed Jul 07, 2004 10:53 am

Yes, that was a bit patronizing and retrospectively impolite but you still don't seem to get it. You have to do the work to get the answers. The answer to your second question was in my first response.
and of course the Turtle Trading Software.
John if you carry on with your current lack of effort then you will have one place in Van Tharp's market ecosystem. You will be the prey ... and that is helpful to the rest of us because the money has to come from somewhere.

I think that when one can no longer be bothered being kind to those who are clearly either lazy or mentally impaired then its time to leave. I plan to join MJ, again for neither political nor financial issue, just time to go. Thanks for the board Forum Mgmnt, its been a worthwhile learning experience.

Good luck and good trading to all those who do the work :)
Last edited by Kiwi on Wed Jul 07, 2004 7:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.

redbullpeter
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Post by redbullpeter » Wed Jul 07, 2004 1:43 pm

Maybe a FAQ would be a good idea?

Peter

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Post by masmit » Fri Jul 09, 2004 4:32 pm

Kiwi wrote:I think that when one can no longer be bothered being kind to those who are clearly either lazy or mentally impaired then its time to leave. I plan to join MJ, again for neither political nor financial issue, just time to go. Thanks for the board Forum Mgmnt, its been a worthwhile learning experience.

Good luck and good trading to all those who do the work :)[/color]
I, for one, as a neophyte at all this, think it a great shame that you would depart. I have found your posts intelligent, informative and encouraging. But if you gotta go, you gotta go....best of luck to you.

Cheers,

Mark

Forum Mgmnt
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Post by Forum Mgmnt » Fri Jul 09, 2004 8:01 pm

Interesting, (stepping onto the soapbox...)

I thought Kiwi went out of his way to be helpful despite his iniital belief that John was just being lazy.

I've seen exchanges in other forums that were much less polite.

My advice to you John is not to take offense so quickly whether here or elsewhere. Kiwi spent a lot of time writing a response to you and it wasn't because he was trying to insult you. In fact, he was trying to help you.

In general, people ask questions because they want answers to those questions. Often, however, the way in which a question is asked greatly affects the quality and quantity of the answers.

This idea is pretty common in open-source and technical discussion forums all over the net. There is an excellent tutorial that explains the right way to ask questions at:

http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

DISCLAIMER: Please read the first few paragraphs. The above link points to a tutorial about how to ask questions that are most likely to get you the answers you want, not a source for you to get answers to those questions.

This tutorial is geared more toward technology questions rather than trading questions but many of the lessons and ideas still apply. The parts "How To Interpret Answers" and "Dealing with Rudeness" are particularly applicable.

Now specifically back to the matter of the original question:
John wrote:Could you please tell me if there is software available to help with entry and exit points?
As Kiwi pointed out, this is a very vague question. Personally, I am probably in possession of the answer to the question but I really didn't know what John was asking for, so I chose not to respond.

Right or wrong, most people's reaction to this type of question is probably: "Well if he can't be bothered to spend enough time that I can understand what he is asking, why should I bother to reply."

It is likely that John has done some investigation into entries and exits and certain software but there is no way to tell from the question.

A better way to ask the question might be:

I'd like to trade the Turtle System but don't want to have to figure out the entry, exits, and position sizing by hand. Does anyone know of any software that does this?

Even better might have been to acknowledge the work done so far to answer the question yourself:

Hi, I'd like to trade the Turtle System but don't want to have to figure out the entry, exits, and position sizing by hand.

I know that VeriTrader does this but it seems like overkill for this purpose, I'm looking for more limited functionality, perhaps an Excel based approach.

I've also looked into Trading Recipes and TradeStation but they seem too complicated as I'm not a programmer.

Does anyone know of any simple software that I can use to assist me with the entries and exits fof the Turtle System?


I encourage those who read this to:
  • Not take offense so easily at other's legitimate responses
  • Take care when asking questions so you are more likely to get good answers
  • Read the above link on smart questions.
Okay, time to step off the soap box.

I'll leave you with one final thought from the above mentioned article:
In their excellent essay on questions, Eric Steven Raymond and Rick Moen wrote:Odds are you'll screw up a few times on hacker community forums — in ways detailed in this article, or similar. And you'll be told exactly how you screwed up, possibly with colourful asides. In public.

When this happens, the worst thing you can do is whine about the experience, claim to have been verbally assaulted, demand apologies, scream, hold your breath, threaten lawsuits, complain to people's employers, leave the toilet seat up, etc. Instead, here's what you do:

Get over it. It's normal. In fact, it's healthy and appropriate.

Community standards do not maintain themselves: They're maintained by people actively applying them, visibly, in public. Don't whine that all criticism should have been conveyed via private mail: That's not how it works. Nor is it useful to insist you've been personally insulted when someone comments that one of your claims was wrong, or that his views differ. Those are loser attitudes.
- Forum Mgmnt

P.S. John, if you haven't left quite yet, please realize that I've spent a lot of time trying to help you and others like you by writing the above. I'm not trying to be harsh or rude, or insulting even if it might appear that way at first.

Dan G

Post by Dan G » Sun Jul 11, 2004 8:47 pm

Kiwi,

Please don't let the response of a jerk stop you from participating here. You are a great poster, and I bet a substantial portion of the community here would be sad to see you leave. If you decide to go, cheers. :D Stop back by sometime and let us know how you are doing!




It might be good to setup a newbies section FAQ. Also, a directory to basic articles, interesting posts, or posts that address basic issues that are buried in a seemingly unrelated threads. Maybe a 'best of' section, or something. There is so much here, and even with the search functions, its getting difficult to find the threads that are basic, or just about anything.

This is the second time recently that there has been some 'newbie' issue, and they seem to be related. There are a lot of proactive people here, let's work out something.

FrankWala
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Post by FrankWala » Sun Jul 11, 2004 11:40 pm

Kiwi
I am a new member of the forum from 3 months ago. The signal / noise ratio is high in this forum; and the discussion is enjoyable. I had a few bricks tossed my way on the omegalist, tharps' forum etc. Sometimes in the heat of the moment, things are said and done; which should be taken lightly (easier said than done). I want to thank you for your interesting posts and thoughts on a wide variety of subjects.

Thanks and appreciation...
I also want to thank c.f. for setting and maintaining this board. It is a thankless job to be a co-ordinator of such an endevour. I acknowledge you for your knowledge, patience and generosity.

I want to thank a lot of contributors on this board for their active part in the discussion ; to put forth an idea or a test of logic to the world too see; and wait for the flowers and the brickbats.

I was going through my half year review of my life/ trading and found that I get back to the same thing. My GOALS/PLAN are not crystal clear. I reread the turtle document http://www.originalturtles.org/docs/turtlerules.pdf and I found the author to be very clear in his mind about entry, exit with a profit or loss, market selection etc.
A person whom I respect said that I have to put my goals/plans in writing (not in my head). I looked through my own goals and plans and decided to copy the turtle document format. Looking critically at my goals, it doesnt turn me on. I went back to the basics - rewrite and read it often. Plan my work and work my plan.

Frank
San Diego

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