London Sugar?

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zacharyoxman
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London Sugar?

Post by zacharyoxman » Thu Apr 16, 2009 9:49 pm

Who got stopped out on that move today? It came up on my data examiner and, wow, what a move....

I can't find any stories or news, anyone?

sluggo
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Post by sluggo » Thu Apr 16, 2009 10:53 pm

Look at the 5-minute chart on futuresource.com . It suggests to me that fatter than normal fingers are involved. However I am not on the Committee Of The Exchange.

My only positions in LIFFE White Sugar #5 today, happened to be a collection of longs, in systems that trade without using stops -- thus violating the Incline Village Essentials Of Trading (ref). Since I had no stops, I wasn't stopped out. Oh the humanity.

J D Canning
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Post by J D Canning » Fri Apr 17, 2009 7:42 am

I was long and, because of what appears to be a significant gap-like move, ended up suffering a 1.7R loss on this trade.

These things happen from time to time I guess. Worse has happened in backtesting, which is reassuring.

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Post by LeapFrog » Fri Apr 17, 2009 10:37 am

I saw that London Sugar down spike too - oh the humanity as Sluggo amusingly put it.

Good for Sluggo to still be in his long trades on this one but those stopped out shouldn't feel so bad IMHO (you can always put your positions back on at the market if you believe it is an abberation). As Sluggo has said elsewhere, a stopless system means a lot less work - there are payoffs for that especially if one trades "an hour or two at night".

This London Sugar run was nasty, but so are runs that don't stop when a stopless system must wait all the way till the next bar sometime to get out at the market. Backtesting these two approaches, in my experience, shows it is better to use stops than not, but that does not mean such a system is better to trade (the work, oh the humanity).

I've had stops in London Sugar which were far far away from the market get stopped out purely on bad tics - took awhile to work with my broker to issue a credit to my account, but what a hassle.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying there is anything right or wrong about stop laden systems versus stopless - there are trade-offs both ways - pick your poison.

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Post by LeviF » Fri Apr 17, 2009 11:16 am

Anyone have a chart to share? I dont see anything unusual...

sluggo
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Post by sluggo » Fri Apr 17, 2009 11:36 am

levijean wrote:Anyone have a chart to share? I dont see anything unusual...
futuresource.com does. (As mentioned in a previous post). It's useful to learn how to access charts there.

Their symbol for August 2009 LIFFE White Sugar #5 is "W Q9-ENC" (W blankspace Q 9 dash E N C). *

Type that into the "Quote Search" box, green rectangle in the illustration below. Then when the menu of Real Time Quotes pops up, click on the blue hyperlink in the Symbol column, red rectangle in the illustration below. This gives you a chart with daily bars, and also gives you the option to redisplay as 60-minute bars, 30-minutes, etc.

* "W" is their base symbol for White sugar, "Q" means August, "9" means 2009, and "-ENC" means EuroNext Commodities (as opposed to -EIR for Euronext Interest Rates, or -EEI for Euronext Equity Indices)
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free charts of futures markets
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LeviF
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Post by LeviF » Fri Apr 17, 2009 11:41 am

Thanks.

RedRock
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Re: London Sugar?

Post by RedRock » Fri Apr 17, 2009 1:14 pm

zacharyoxman wrote:Who got stopped out on that move today? It came up on my data examiner and, wow, what a move....

I can't find any stories or news, anyone?
Yup, Stops filled over 25 handles away. And they say the trades will stand. BS. Exchange would not bust trades, in fact, busted NO trades in that 3 second 'correction' Only recourse is arbitration with liffe, which is of course now owned by NEW YORK. Seems London cant be trusted to be fair at the moment. Big SIGH grrrrrrrrrrr practice zen etc The complaint process is not easily accessible. But they will be getting a little something from me in the complaint department.

http://www.euronext.com/fic/000/010/635/106356.pdf

7:42 AM, April 16, 2009
1242 GMT [Dow Jones] Liffe white sugar futures may have dropped sharply on a
broker or trader making a mistake, says a London broker. The August contract
lost around $50/ton in value briefly during the session, leading to the
exchange announcing it was investigating the trade. However, the exchange has
since said the trade stands, says the broker. August -$10.70, or 2.7%, at
$393.00/ton. (SMC)

(END) Dow Jones Newswires

04-16-09 0842ET

Copyright (c) 2009 Dow Jones & Company, Inc.

08:42 041609

RedRock
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Post by RedRock » Tue Apr 21, 2009 11:54 am

So far, my experience with filing a 'claim' for London via NY via my broker (or direct) is somewhat akin to fighting city hall. One of these days, Ill have to remember to get a team of lawyers on my staff. :lol:

zacharyoxman
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Post by zacharyoxman » Wed Apr 22, 2009 12:52 am

We got the same response...basically, too bad. Looks like a fat finger to me...

RedRock
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Just call me the squeeky wheel....

Post by RedRock » Mon Apr 27, 2009 12:38 pm

Dear Mr redrock

On behalf of Mr ------------ I would like to acknowledge that we are in receipt of your letter requesting ex-gratia for trading losses in the White Sugar contract date April 16th 2009.

All claims for ex-gratia are fully investigated by the exchange and the findings presented to the Membership, Rules & Trading Committee who as an independent body make the ultimately decision on whether any ex-gratia payment is warranted.

As part of that investigation the exchange may in the near future need to contact yourself and or your brokers should it require further information.


Regards

--- ------
Senior Manager, NYSE Liffe Market Services

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